Testimonies
Moniek Garber – Video Interview
Lore Lucas – Video Interview
Rosa Sacharin – Video Interview
Susan Singerman – Video Interview
John Mackay – After the War
So I went to Sennelager, and when I was at Sennelager I was in charge of everything, being the Quartermaster – the stores, transport anything that meant anything. I could have bought Germany with the number of cigarettes I had. If you smoked, and I did smoke occasionally, somebody would follow you until you through your tip away and they would make a grab for it. They were desperate, desperate for cigarettes. Anyway, I made friends with a chap called Ben Franklin and he was a bit of a dancer, and he had a girlfriend – he never told me he had a girlfriend, but he had a girlfriend – and he said on Saturday down at Railhead we have a dance.
In the early days you were not allowed to fraternise – you could not fraternise with the German girls and the war was finished but you could not fraternise with them. The only girls you could have at the dance were NAAFI girls, or something similar. He said I know a place where there are girls. We could get a truck. A truck was easy. I was in charge of the trucks. So, I got my German driver and he and I nipped off to this place – Kurnitz -and I drove into the square and hooted. I thought I better do this the right way. There is somebody in charge here. There was a woman in charge, and I forget her name now, and I said, “Look, any of your girls like to come and have a dance?” and she said she was sure they would. “Do you have any petrol?”
I said, “How much do you want?”
“What have you got?”
With a gallon of petrol, I could have the whole camp. I gave her the petrol and we went further down and just in the big wide square and hooted and the girls came out. Those who wanted to come.
INT: And who were these girls?
JM: I didn’t know, but they were Jews.
INT: So, these were people who had survived the concentration camps?
JM: Yes. I didn’t know at the time. All I knew was that they were just girls. But they all climbed in the back of the van, and we took them down to where the dance was. When we got down there, they all piled out and went into the dance and onto the dance floor and I asked Ben, “Who are these girls?” And he then told me that they were all Hungarians and that they had been liberated about a mile away. They were on the march. They had been marching on the way to Belsen and the Americans overtook the Germans and the guards just fled and the girls suddenly found themselves surrounded by American soldiers and they did not know what to do, and the Americans said there is a village not very far away. Go to the village and we will send somebody with you. Go to the village and take over anything you want. Take the houses, put the people out; take the houses and go and live there. It was easier said than done, but obviously the Americans went as well. Some of them went to help them; maybe some of them were Jewish. Anyway, the first night Anya would not believe them and Etse and somebody else, they slept in a field.
INT: That is the lady [Anya is mother in Hungarian] who became your mother-in-law in the end, and your wife?
J.M: They went and slept in a field together. Anya didn’t believe it; couldn’t believe it; couldn’t believe it.
So that’s how I met her, and I happened to see this girl with very dark hair and very dark face. I thought she was a gypsy, and I said I would like to dance with that girl. I said to Ben go and ask if she would dance with me, as I can’t dance. So, I got a message to say if he wants to dance with me, he has to come and ask me himself. So, I thought fair enough and went up and asked her and she said yes, and I danced with her. What I didn’t know was she had a Jewish boyfriend who used to meet her there. Sydney, his name was Sydney, and every time I knew Etse came in for a dance – lots of people went to this camp to bring the girls in – but not many of them took their mothers with them – Sydney was always there, and I turned up and poor old Sydney did not know what to do. First of all, he was a Corporal, and I was a Quartermaster Sergeant so that made a big difference, and he knew that Etse was quite keen, and I used to say to Etse,” You dance with him as I can’t dance. He enjoys it. If you enjoy it, that is fine”.
Anyway, the day came when I went up one day. I used to go up there occasionally myself into the house and I would get tea and something. Anya would make tea for us, and she said we are going away tomorrow. I said, “Where are you going to?” She said we are going to Israel. I said, “What do you mean, you are going to Israel? She said there is a transport leaving tomorrow and we are going and try to get through, and if we get through, we are going to Italy and after Italy we are going to go to Palestine. I said, “Oh, so that is it then?” and she said, “Yes, that is it”. So, there was a fond farewell and off I went and off she went, and that was the last I thought I would see of her. Fortunately, the Russians caught them. The Russians stopped them and sent them back and I got word. I don’t know how I got to find out, probably from Ben’s girlfriend, she would know, probably her. I got to know through her the Etse was back. So, when she came back, I knew then that I was in love with her so going back one night in a three tonner at night I asked her to marry me, and she said yes. So, there you are.
Int 1: Her mother wasn’t with her at that time?
JM: Nowhere near! On the 17th of this month, we will have been married for sixty-nine years.
INT: What family did you have?
JM: Two, Peter was born in 1949 and Sharon was born in 1954 – two of a family, one born in Glasgow and one in Edinburgh.
INT: And I think you have got a number of grandchildren?
JM: Oh yes, and I have got four great-grandchildren and seven grandchildren.
Int 2: And you owned the Atholl Arms Hotel in Blair Atholl for many years.
JM: I did. And we met a lot of Jewish people who became very friendly with us in Glasgow and my parents bought a house on Great Western Road, which was the house owned by Mr and Mrs Elder, who had a furniture business in Glasgow. They divided the flat, top and bottom, and my parents had the top flat and they had the bottom flat and it was through them that my mother mentioned to Mrs Elder that her daughter in-law was Hungarian and Jewish, and she said she knew a Hungarian and Jewish girl, which is your mother.
Int 2: Yes, my mother.
JM: They had been to school together.
Int 2: And through the camps.
Int 3: She was the first one to see me, as well.
JM: When I came to visit Mum in the nursing home, I parked my car outside Susie’s house, and it was on that hill – Gardner Street -and Susie she said that she had already been there. and I am said I just away to see her, and I went up.
Reflection on life
INT: We usually finish by asking what you would say were the high points and the low points in your life. Would you like to finish off by telling us that?
JM: The high points of my life….
I got the MBE, which is something.
INT: For your war work?
JM: Not for my war work. For my work for the local community in Pitlochry.
INT 2: Because you became a Councillor after you retired, didn’t you?
JM: Yes, I was a regional Councillor and then after eight years I lost my seat to the SNP and I then went and became a district Councillor and I had another four years as a Conservative Councillor there, and it was through that that I got put up for an MBE.
INT 3: You did a lot of work bringing industry to the region?
JM Yes, oh yes and I was a Governor of the theatre, Pitlochry Theatre, various things, and I started things like Arthritis Care and other things, the Rotary Club, chairman of the Rotary Club.
There were various things which I did when I was in Pitlochry, which I consider to be my hone town, and which I considered where I come from. Pitlochry is very deep in my love. I am very fond of it, and I think Sharon is too, all my family life was there. I have got sixty-nine many happy married years with Etse. I hardly know that I am this terrible age. I must say that being together for all these years, Etse and I together.
The last four or five years haven’t been quite as fruitful, as they were before. Etse has become troubled with dementia and just recently, of course, she is now in a care home, but I go and see her every afternoon and will continue to do so. And Sharon does too. My family are very close to me, my granddaughters. And my grandsons are in London. I don’t see them very often, but I hear from them, and my son I don’t see very often but I do hear from him; he is in California. All three of them – two sons and their father are all film cameramen, and they have all done very well and have a happy life.
INT: Any low points? You sound as if you found the army very exciting . Would you describe the army as a low point as well?
JM: No, I look back as the army as probably what has been responsible for my long life. You live a healthy life. You don’t eat too much. You don’t drink too much. Well, it is up to you what you do, but I look to the army. If anybody asked me, I would say take everything in moderation and spend seven years in the army. You can’t go wrong.
INT: Thank you John, that was really interesting.
So, Sharon you were going to tell us a little more about your father?
Int 3: I was just reminding him about Mum’s engagement ring and how he purchased it.
JM: Well, it just so happened that I met a German, who asked me if I had any cigarettes. Fortunately, I had a whole room full of cigarettes and he had what I considered to be a nice ring on, turquoise, an amethyst ring, Sharon knows more about the ring, so I gave him fifty cigarettes for it.
Int 3: The story was Mum gave the ring to Rachel, my youngest daughter, who treasured it and one Christmas she went out and the stone fell out of the ring, and she was absolutely devastated and searched high and low for it. She had been out clubbing but couldn’t find it. About a year later a friend of hers had been out walking the dog and something caught her eye and there was the amethyst lying on the ground and they found it.
JM: In London.
S. No, it was in Edinburgh. It was obviously meant to be found.