immigration

Isi Metzstein – Immigration

This section deals with Isis Metzstein’s arrival in Scotland in 1939 and recounts where he was cared for and where ie went to school. It also describes how other members of his family managed to come to Britain.

Read the Transcript

INT: When did you arrive in Scotland?

IM: The 28th of June 1939

INT: And you remember it very well?

IM: No I don’t…I remember the arrival, I don’t remember the date. I just happened to have recently looked at the document which was stamped with the 28th of… Of course we arrived a day earlier in London but as far as arriving in Scotland – the 28th of June.

INT: And how old were you then?

IM: Just a few days short of eleven

INT: Oh you were very young. How and why did you come to Scotland?

IM: Because the people who were taking me into care were Scottish. There was somebody in Berlin. My older sister, it may have been her teacher (I’m not sure of their relationship) had connections in Scotland with groups of people, I think they were some Christians, they weren’t with the Brethren, but people like that.

INT: Right

IM: And they took up individual children into their home.

INT: And where exactly did you stay? Here in Glasgow was it?

IM: No, it was outside Clydebank. A place called Hardgate. Not a terribly well known place

INT: No, not a lot of Jews there I don’t suppose?

IM: In fact there was one, I think, somewhere up the road but no there weren’t any Jews really.

INT: So what was your impression of Scotland and the people? It must have been very strange for you.

IM: Well actually it wasn’t all that strange It wasn’t all that strange. The people were very friendly. The family I went to were very accommodating – they had a boy the same age as me and they were actually… I mean it must have been as strange for them as it was for me because they were very ordinary, nice ordinary, upper working class people. They worked in Singers and places like that, when Singers was still around.

And to have a strange child, Jewish child, who couldn’t speak English, arrive in their midst – they were very… I use the word ordinary, I don’t mean that negatively I just mean they had never explored the world, the way people do nowadays. I think their idea of adventure was to go to Edinburgh for a day, yes, and it must have been very strange for them.

INT: Of course. And did you find that you picked up the language very rapidly?

IM: Yes within about 6 weeks I think

INT: Really? That’s amazing

IM: That’s what happens. It’s not me, I’m not very good at languages, no. I went to a local school in Duntocher and within 6 weeks definitely I could speak to the other children and incidentally, just for the record, I had no problem there either. There was no bullying. They thought it was very strange and asked me funny questions but I was a kind of exciting newcomer. So, I found the transfer from Germany to Scotland fairly painless apart from, of course, missing my family and all the other things. But the reception and the welcome was very easy.

INT: That’s good. Did you meet or even mix with the local Jewish community or were you…

IM: There is no local Jewish community.

INT: Oh no, but with the wider Glasgow area?

IM: No

INT: No

IM: Well, I don’t know how to explain that. I stayed with these people till about May…May/June 1940 when the Germans finally got, got to invade France and Holland and all that and there was a certain doubt about German or strange children being around I think. Also, the Jewish community here set up a hostel in Skelmorlie for local evacuees and when that happened the community, whatever they were, they collected as many of the Jewish children that had been living with non-Jewish families and sent them to Skelmorlie.

So, in about middle of, near the middle of 1940 we lived in a hostel, in a Jewish hostel. But it wasn’t for refugees as such, it was for the local children from Glasgow – Jewish children.

INT: I see. So, I know I was going to ask you about the refugee centre – that’s not the refugee centre?

IM: No, no

INT: That was something separate?

IM: That’s not the refugee centre. We went to Skelmorlie. and then later in Castle Douglas. And of course, as the war progressed, the local children went back home and what was left, the residue, was all Kinder Transportees

INT: Yes, I see

IM: But it wasn’t originally set up for that.

INT: And you went to school there did you?

IM: I went to school in Castle Douglas. The rest of them went to Kirkcudbright, the older children. But I was back here in 1943 and then went to Hyndland.

INT: And who were you staying with then?

IM: My mother

INT: Oh she had come out by that time?

IM: Well she had come out before the war of course. But originally she was in Dorset in the south coast with my older sister, as a domestic cook and nursery maid.

And when the Germans finally got to the Channel ports the authorities here thought that people of German origin were possible spies and they might signal to the German submarines. So they had to leave Dorset and they came up to Glasgow.

INT: Right, and so you were all together then?

IM: Well, 1943, not right at the end but 1943, most of us were sent away from Castle Douglas and came back to Glasgow and those who had families were sent back to their families. That’s how I rejoined my mother and the other children, my brothers and sisters. Since I arrived in Britain, I never spoke German. At first I lived with a family who couldn’t speak German and then went to the hostel and by that time we could speak English and very rarely did somebody in the hostel speak German, or at least that I know of.

INT2: But you lived with your mother?

DM: Well, she spoke German to you and you answered in English.

IM: Yeah, I answered in English

DM: Which was the usual setup wasn’t it?

IM: She started speaking English and finally we only spoke in English.

INT: And was that a subconscious or a conscious decision? I know a lot of refugees who came at the same sort of time chose not to speak in the continental language that they had started with.

IM: No. Again, it’s circumstantial. If you look at my record, everything is virtually circumstantial. I didn’t plan these things. The fact remains that I came here, couldn’t speak to anybody in German, didn’t get together with my mother until, from ’39-’43, so by that time she was mostly speaking English. But she spoke a whole lot of languages – she spoke Polish, Russian, Yiddish, German and a bit, quite a lot of English. So she was an incredible English-speaker by 1948/47 and I never spoke German again. Or very rarely. My sister. She came over and she went to people in Clydebank. My younger brother went to people in Kilmarnock. They were separated. And then we came together in the hostel in Skelmorlie and my mother and my sister came back, came up from Dorset where they were, and then my sister went to London. I’d a brother already in London.

DM: And you were five siblings who got reunited.

IM: We weren’t reunited for very long. My sister went to London almost right away.

INT: And did you all come as part of the Kindertransport?

IM: No we didn’t. My mother went, came, entered as a cook in a stately home. It was quite an experience for her, poor soul, because she had to disembowel deer and cook venison and pork and things. I mean that’s something she wouldn’t have physically touched never mind been involved in cooking it. And my sister was there as a children’s nurse and I think they were there for something like, nearly a year…ten months I think and then the serious war broke out and they were told to leave and they came to Glasgow. But my sister, very early after that, she went to live in London.

INT: Your mother must have been very brave to allow her family to be displaced in all these directions.

IM: Well not quite as… Yes I wish I could agree but simply it’s not as simple as that. As so happens my mother had a visa for, to go to the stately home, to work in the stately home with all the children on the visa.

INT2: Right

IM: But she didn’t want to, I think it was really my sister, didn’t want to take that risk. So we were sent off but we could have all gone with my mother. But my mother only came and my sister only came to Britain just a few weeks, a month or something before the war broke out. And that being fortuitous timing.

If they hadn’t had that we all would have been trapped in Germany. You can imagine what would have happened then. So we were very lucky but my sister, I think, was the main operator in this thought. I think she thought it would be safer to send all the children away in case something untoward happened.

DM: She was about 17/18 wasn’t she? She took control of the situation then.

INT2: That’s very young.

IM: Well my mother was too busy earning a living.

INT2: Yeah

IM: She had 5 children and no husband.

INT: So, what risk? I’m not quite clear. What risk did she think would be run if you all went to Dorset with your mother?

IM: No, in case the war broke out.

INT: I see. So she wanted you out quicker, I see.

INT2: The older sister went down to London…

IM: I already had a brother who was in… near London. He came out under a different system. When young men became 17 and too old for the Kindertransport there was another arrangement to get him out of Germany and my brother [Joe] had that. And then there were, obviously as I say, the three young children [Isi, Jenny, Leo] and they all went to different people. Then in 1943 we got together with my mother again and I went to school in Glasgow, to Hyndland.

INT2: And so did your siblings (apart from the ones who were down in London), did they go to Hyndland as well?

IM: Well my sister did, my younger brother was too young for that. He went to a school somewhere… St George’s Cross? I don’t know. And that’s it, that’s how we became a family again. But my brother, my older brother and sister didn’t stay long. They shot off, they wanted their freedom.

Ingrid Wuga – Immigration

INT: So when you arrived in England

IW: In Liverpool

INT: In Liverpool. You were met

IW: By a Mr. Overton who was also from the group of Christadelphians who had arranged to bring people/children over; boys and girls. And there were quite a few in Ashby-de-la-Zouch but I only met one couple because I, I was asked by the Dixons ‘What would you like to do?’ and I said ‘Could I go back to school?’

‘Oh no, no you are over fourteen; girls over fourteen don’t need to go to school anymore’

But I was asked ‘Would I like to earn some pocket money?’ And of course when you are a guest in somebody’s house you say yes thank you. And I would have loved to gone into, I’ve always been interested in medicine and I would have loved to go into nursing but Mrs. Dixon put me off very quickly ‘No, no, no – you need to wash walls and you don’t want to do that.’

I have a feeling she was afraid I might have to go and live with them and she was alright but Mr. Dixon was much kinder and…

INT: How long did you spend there then? How long did you stay?

IW: Not very long. It was a matter of a few weeks and they found me a job as a children’s nurse in, in a huge house where we eventually came… there was Patrick who was eighteen months old and I became charged with looking after Patrick.

INT2: So you were a nanny?

IW: I beg your pardon?

INT2: You were a nanny?

IW: I was a nanny. Well, so called nanny

INT2: Yeah

IW: The young couple who had Patrick, because war was imminent, moved in with the in-laws who lived in a huge house in Snarestone. When I say a huge house… In those days to have a swimming pool in your garden…

INT: Wow

IW: It was not exactly a little house of poor people. And there were other staff. The Lesley’s were very kind to me and treated me very well.

INT2: Were they Christadelphians?

IW: No they were not Christadelphians but they were very kind. But there was other staff (because it was such a huge house; other staff) and I think they felt why, as far as they were concerned, (Jewish didn’t come into it – I don’t think they had ever met any Jewish people) – but as far as they were concerned I was ‘German’ and that did not stand me in good stead. So they felt probably – why does a stupid German girl have a job looking after a little boy when one of their friends probably could have had the job?

INT: How did you learn English then?

IW: I had a little English at school and it helped me. That was another thing that was held against me – how can I look after a little boy who is learning to speak the language and my English was not perfect?

INT: Right

IW: Obviously not

INT: So a lot of people around were feeling resentful?

IW: Very resentful. But the Lesley’s were fine. The Lesley’s were very kind and because I looked after Patrick I had breakfast with the family (and that was held against me) and afternoon tea. Again I looked after Patrick with afternoon tea with the family. But my other job was obviously to wash Patrick’s nappies. In those days we did not have throwaway nappies; we had nappies that had to be washed and I did that.

INT: So I sense at that time then you were quite happy and content in one area of

IW: Yes

INT: Your working life there

IW: Yes quite happy there

INT: But you were aware that there were people around you that were a bit resentful about you having that position?

IW: Yes, yes but I had a job, I was quite happy there and Mr. Dixon would pick me up on my half day and take me back. I was in the Dixon’s house on my half day and Mrs. Dixon would take me out shopping, if I wanted anything.

INT: So you were treated fairly?

IW: Yes I was treated very fairly.

INT: Alright. So then what happened from there?

IW: From there…

INT: You were in England

IW: Yes

INT: You were working for this family

IW: Family

INT: And things were going along. The war was on.

IW: Yes

INT: Did you have any other contact at that time with any of the other Jewish refugees?

IW: No, none at all, I didn’t have any contact at all. My half day was spent with the Dixons and at night I was taken back again to my workplace and I did hear a week before war broke out that my parents managed to get to this country and they were brave enough to come as domestics.

INT: Ok so they made it out then and they got over here.

IW: They got out yes, at least they got to this country

INT: Ok

IW: And eventually they found a job in West Kilbride which is not far from Glasgow and when they were settled there (that was about ten months later) – ‘I would like to be near you, can you get me a job near you?’ And that’s how I got to Scotland.

INT: I see, ok. So you were sort of the best part of nearly a year then down in England?

IW: Yes, yes

INT: And then your parents, they came over and they came to West Kilbride

IW: That’s right

INT: And then you came up here to join them.

IW: That’s right

INT: Alright. So this would have been what roundabout…19…41?

IW: ’41.

Click to view other testimonies from Ingrid Wuga

Ike Gibson – Immigration

Ike recounts his journey from Germany as a Kinder. He describes his difficult arrival in England

INT: So what happened, when Kristallnacht happened…

IG: Yeah.

INT: Life changed.

IG: Yeah.

INT: Can you remember any of that?

IG: Not really. I was kept, sort of ticking over.

INT: Yeah.

IG: So I don’t really remember. I’m trying to think if I remember anything else from that time at all.

INT: How about Esther your eldest… or Debra is the eldest one?

IG: Debra is the eldest of the lot.

INT: Yeah.

IG: And she and I had the…

INT: The diphtheria.

IG: The diphtheria together. I can’t really recall much else.

INT: OK.

IG: I was told, again hearsay, that my father’s favourite was Esther, the younger daughter. He was clearly the favourite…She was clearly the favourite.

INT: So what happened after? Things got very tough for your parents obviously, and then what happened?

IG: Well I remember that my father went into hiding and it was a, a cellar with a window at street level, so I’m told, I don’t recall it.

And then the five of us went with my mother in a taxi and I believe I was crying but I have no idea what it was about. We were taken to a train station and got on the train and said goodbye to my mother, I don’t recall that, but then we…

My next memory is that we were in Belgium and the kind ladies there give us all sticky buns and then we went onto the Kindertransport and again I have no recollection of the transport itself at all.

But I remember when we got off we went through the customs and I had a little khaki canvas rucksack on, don’t forget I was only…I was 2 days before my fifth birthday, and some nasty customs man put a big chalk cross on the back of my rucksack and I was mortally offended! I can remember that, how offended I was.

INT: Do you know what was in it?

IG: No idea.

INT: You can’t remember.

IG: No. And eventually we, Esther and I, went to the house of the Kahn family in Finsbury Park and the Kahn family were also ultra-orthodox Jews.

So apparently I was asked, Esther has told me, that I was asked lots of Hebrew-type questions before I was even allowed in the door.

Immigration :Evacuation

IG: But 3 weeks after that all the London kids were evacuated and I ended up with a crowd of other kids in St. Ives in what is now Cambridgeshire and the billeting officer was Miss Kitty Wiles who worked in the local office, the town clerks office. So she was the billeting officer and she put Esther and I in The Lamb Public House. And my one memory of The Lamb was that Esther and I couldn’t speak any English and we went down into the bar and all the men, and it was only men, were apparently joshing and joking with us that… they were all quite kindly.

And Kitty Wiles thought that was unsuitable so she moved us to the house of a Mrs Middleton, Mr and Mrs Middleton and I haven’t the faintest recollection of Mr Middleton, I think he was a total non-entity; she ruled the roost of everything. And she had 2 teenage daughters and hated the idea of having these 2 nasty little Jewish kids lumbered on her and the house, despite the fact that she was a big snob, the house overlooked St. Ives slaughterhouse.

Again, that didn’t last long and then we were transferred, by Kitty Wiles, to a Mrs Saybe.

Mrs Saybe was a kindly widow living in a little terraced half cottage in, I think it was called Park Lane but it was a little drive up to the park in St. Ives and I was there for the first Christmas.

I have very little memory of that but I was there for the first Christmas and she invited her widowed sister and her lodger who lived in one of the other little cottages in for Christmas. And I remember he would give Esther a ride on his back, the lodger, and I used to caterwaul and then he’d give me a ride on his back, I still used to caterwaul so I was obviously a miserable little beggar at the time. And my sister got friendly with a girl at school who invited her to a party at May Wiles, the sister of the billeting officer, and she said she couldn’t go unless I went with her so I got towed along with her and immediately made friends with two evacuated kids, Ronnie and Shirley Kitto.

INT: Right, were they Kindertransport as well?

IG: No they weren’t Kindertransport, they were evacuees from London.

INT: Right.

IG: And I don’t think the girl Esther had made friends with was Kindertransport.

And the upshot of it was I and Esther went to live with May Wiles and theirs was, that was a big house owned by the Baptist Chapel and the widowed, her mother, the widow of the Baptist pastor, that was a strict Baptist chapel, he had died just before the war and so the widow was there and her younger daughter May was looking after her and she ended up with 13 evacuated children.

INT: Wow.

IG: Her cousin just down the road ended up with 21 evacuated children.

INT: It must have been a big house.

IG: Yeah it was but she, the cousin with the 21 evacuated children, was pictured on the full back page photo of The Sunday Pictorial because of the 13 evacuated children. But that was, May Wiles was the sister of the billeting officer Kitty Wiles and of course we were all marched to the strict Baptist chapel every Sunday and later on every Wednesday as well, on most Wednesdays.

May started off by feeding Esther and I only things she thought would not offend the Jewish faith and then realised, she told me later, it was war time and we just had to eat what we could get. So I’m afraid she started feeding us whatever the others had, including roast pork, which I suppose I should feel sorry to say instantly became my favourite roast!

INT: Always things that you’re not supposed to have.

IG: Yeah. I think it was the crackling that attracted me. But I do remember that became my favourite very quickly. And we were well looked after and at the end of the war…

INT: Where did you go to school?

IG: In what was called the St. Ives Council School but it, there was two council schools, one was the local council school and the other was the evacuated council school. And we were upstairs in the Free Church Hall Again

I have very little memory of that except they used to cane you across the hands if you spoke in class.

Everybody who spoke in class got two or three cuts across their hands and the cane was often not in the room you were in so one boy who’d been caned rather a lot was sent to fetch the cane from the another room when the master was going to cane him and when he brought it into the room he put it across his knee…sorry, first he lashed out at the master’s legs and then when he’d had a good cut of the master’s legs he put it across his knee and threw it out of the window.

INT: Wow!

IG: I can’t remember what happened to him but I can remember that incident very well.

INT: So were there other children in this, other Jewish children in this school?

IG: I have no recollection at all.

INT: But you just all got on, all the evacuees?

IG: All got on with each other, yeah.

INT: And what was the education like?

IG: I don’t remember it being particularly good but May Wiles obviously got to like me a lot, and to like Esther.

She sent Esther for four years to two different private schools which she had to pay and she wanted me to get the scholarship to go to the grammar school so she got a whole load of past papers from the school and at ten years old she was drumming me through these papers every night, once or twice even reducing me to tears over the papers. But of course we didn’t, I didn’t realise and she didn’t obviously, scholarship papers are essentially intelligence tests and if you practice with intelligence tests you get better at it, even if you’re not more intelligent.

Henry Wuga – Immigration

Henry describes how the Kindertransport system enabled him to leave Germany and come to Britain. He was initially looked after by relatives of his mother who lived in Glasgow. These relatives and other Jewish families helped him to settle in.

I came to Glasgow on Kindertransport. My mother asked the committee [who] found a place for me on the Kindertransport but we had a connection in Glasgow.

In Glasgow my mother’s cousin, Mrs Gummers, Gummers the dentist; they emigrated to Glasgow from Germany so my mother asked Greta Gummers could she find a place for me and then the committee in Glasgow, the Ladies Committee – Mrs Thora Wolffson and Mrs Thelma Mann found me a place and I came by Kindertransport to Glasgow.

INT: Can you tell us about the, your experiences when you were coming to Glasgow? Coming on the Kindertransport?

H.W: Yes well it’s traumatic to start with. You’re taken to the station, you wave goodbye to your parents, you have no idea whether you will ever see them again. It was quite traumatic really. On the other hand, may I tell you being a boy, and being somewhat adventurous I was always interested in travel and where to go and what to do.

I fully understood, coming from Nurnberg, I meanI was politically aware of what, why and where and how. I said to my mother ‘Why must I go with this train straight into London and then into Glasgow? Why can’t I take a train via Paris and stay with my cousin for a week?’

It wasn’t, it wasn’t like that but you understand?

INT: Yes

H.W: In any case, we, you’re in the train with all these other children – some very young, some very traumatised, crying whatever. When we crossed the German frontier things became easier.

The German soldiers left the train. We were in Holland and you were – everybody will tell you from the Kindertransport – in Holland, whenever the train stopped at the station there were groups of women, Dutch women, with chocolate and apples and sandwiches – it was really quite amazing. Hoek van Holland, overnight in the boat. The first time I crossed the channel – the first time I’d seen the sea – mind you – it was night time.

I arrived in Harwich the next morning, again onto a train, taken to Liverpool Street Station, underground, a huge waiting room, I mean down below. A black hole, there must have been about two hundred children in it.

All the paraphernalia of the committees and children being collected and myself and another two children were kept there. We were sitting there for hours. Everybody was collected; we were not. We were going on to Glasgow the next day so we stayed in London overnight at some Hostel. So you’re sitting there for hours, it was quite, quite horrendous. But next day we left, we left for Glasgow.

We were taken to Euston Station by the Flying Scotsman, never having been in a compartment with upholstery before. I mean in Germany we travelled third class in wooden benches. It was quite interesting and we were taken to the dining car and we had waiters.

I mean the waiter had white gloves [and there were] silver teapots and I remember that little girl wouldn’t take this or that, she wanted hot chocolate – well, she got hot chocolate so that was quite an experience coming here, quite a… Arriving in Glasgow of course I was collected by my second cousin and taken to my new lodgings.

INT: And what, who did you lodge with?

H.W: The, the lady that took me in was a Mrs Eta Harwich. She lived in Queens Drive; 169 Queens Drive. The lady must have been in her mid sixties; her children were all grown up, obviously no longer in Glasgow.

One daughter was in Glasgow, her son who ran the factory (she still had an upholstery factory) he was still at home and they took me in. She was a wonderful lady, very, very intellectual lady, I must say. She took me to the theatre, she took me to music and she made me feel very much at home.

It was very, very interesting; very kind people.

INT: But it must have been traumatic for you Henry?

H.W: It is. The language is different, the food is different – everything is different, but well you just have to cope with it. It was traumatic but, I mean, I did manage to get through it. Some of the younger ones found it rather difficult

INT: What age were you when you arrived in Glasgow?

H.W: Fifteen and a half

INT: Fifteen and a half and what, did you go to school then?

H.W: Yes. Well, the first thing that happened, Mrs Harwich had grandchildren and friends in the West End and I met with them; I was taken there obviously. The Sassoons of Kirkcudbright, the family Sassoon. David Sassoon and his wife Vera lived in Kirkcudbright with two sons. They invited me on holiday. So I came here, I was taken in, Mrs Harwich insisted that I should go to school, which was, I went to Queens Park School – only for a few weeks because then the holidays intervened. Yes, the summer holidays. And then I went to the Sassoon’s for four weeks.

INT: Was that a relative of Siegfried?

H.W: Exactly, a relative of Siegfried, a brother of Siegfried, yes, oh yes, a brother of Siegfried – David Sassoon a painter, who moved to Kirkcudbright with his wife and two sons. He didn’t have anything to do with the banking and the horseracing.

He moved to Kirkcudbright his son still lives in Kirkcudbright (he’s Joey Sassoon, still a very good friend of mine).

That was interesting; they had a huge house in Kirkcudbright – lovely. Carpets and paintings and whatnot but we lived on Carrick Shore in a hut, no electricity, no water, tilley lamps, I mean that’s how it was. My first connection with the sea, now I don’t know if you know the Solway Firth?

INT: Yes

H.W: The tide goes out for three miles so, you be careful you’re not caught by the tide. It was very interesting for me; wonderful time to be had with another friend, we stayed with them for three weeks, and I’ve been friendly with them ever since.

When we came back to Glasgow I went back to school.

INT: Yes

Gretl Shapiro – Immigration

This section describes Gretl’s arrival in England through the Kindertransport system and explains how she came to be placed with an English family.

Read the Transcript

INT: When you arrived do you remember how you felt? Were you frightened or bewildered?

G.S: Well, yes. My sister was already here and we arrived at Liverpool Street Station and I remember there was a sort of barrier and my sister was standing there waving madly, but we were rushed away because I think that we had to catch a train to Coventry. And so I never even kissed my sister or greeted her or anything but the following, I think it must have been the following week, the following weekend, she came to visit me from London.

INT: And you were pleased to see her?

G.S: Of course!

INT: Did you feel lost and did you feel foreign at that time?

G.S: Yes, a bit yes, because my English was practically non-existent and my guardian couldn’t speak German. So it was difficult at first but it was such a wonderful household I went to – a fabulous woman.

INT: This is the lady that you eventually called your aunt?

G.S yes yes

INT: When you came to Britain and you arrived here, and you knew you were coming to a family did you know anything about the family at all?

G.S: I think I knew there were three sisters living together, all teachers – and that’s about it. Really the, the connection was made originally by a cousin of mine – Ilona, who used to go to Bielefeldt and, on holiday. I’m not quite sure whether, what she did there but maybe she took English people around, I don’t know. But she met there, the headmistress of that school I went to in Barrs Hill, Barrs Hill Grammar School, and this lady had said that she wanted to help somebody and she knew of somebody who wanted to help children out and my cousin Ilona had said ‘Well I’ve got a small cousin who needs to get out’. And this is how it all started. That’s how the names were exchanged.

INT: And this was the beginning?

G.S: Yeah

INT: But there was a, it was a large movement, there were a lot of children who came out at that time

G.S: Yes

INT: Through the Quakers weren’t there?

G.S: Yes, over nine thousand children the Quakers took out. They arranged for.

INT: Did you speak any English at all?

G.S: I’d had one year at school – that’s all.

INT: So it was very limited?

G.S: Yes, very limited yes.

INT: What was the full name of your adopted aunt?

G.S: Margaret Kershaw Scholes and she came from Oldham in Lancashire

INT: And you kept your own name? Your own family name which was?

G.S: Yes. Marlé

INT: And how do you spell that?

G.S: M-A-R-L-E accente aigue. It’s got an accent on it – it’s French

INT: And then, when you came here you just kept your name right through?

G.S: Yes, oh yes. Well no, when I married then I changed it.

INT: And you came first of all to Coventry

G.S: Yes

INT: And what date did you arrive in the UK?

G.S: On the 22nd of June 1939

INT: May I ask how old you were then?

G.S: Fourteen

INT: Fourteen. And.if there’s anything else I need. And you’ve been in Scotland since 1950? Is that right?

G.S: Yes, yes

George Taylor – Immigration

George describes how he arrived in Glasgow and was eventually reunited with his mother.

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INT: You came over straight to Glasgow?

G.T: Yes

INT: Was your mum there to meet you when you came?

G.T: No she wasn’t. That’s another wee story.

G.T: You were only allowed to take ten shillings (marks?, ed), no matter how much money you had and one suitcase. You packed as much as you could and you put on coats. Now you must remember I couldn’t speak a word of English – I couldn’t even say “yes or “no”.

Nothing. The gentleman who was in charge of the Kindertransport, said, “You have got ten German marks, give me it and I’ll change it for English money.” So I gave him it and I’m still waiting for the change. Got done out of a few bob but I was too shy to ask for my money back!

INT: What languages could you speak?

G.T: Only Yiddish and German and Hebrew at that time. I’ve forgotten my Hebrew now but I could translate the Hebrew into German obviously because I used to go to Cheder after every school; every afternoon you went to Cheder. So anyway I arrived at Harwich; there were 150 children with the transport and everybody was going to different places and there I was sitting, the only one left.

So the immigration officer took me home to London, put me up and sent a telegram to my mother who stayed at 28 Abbotsford Place, where she had a room – a young brother and sister owned the flat. The telegram said that I was going to arrive the following morning at Glasgow Railway Station. I got to Glasgow, with my suitcase, wearing my jackboots noch (still) and a coat down to the ground, like a Potke. I was standing on my own wondering what I was going to do. I hadn’t got a penny in my pocket, I couldn’t say “yes” or “no”. I was still sort of cowed because of my experience of having stones thrown at me and being shouted and sworn at. A man came over and he spoke Yiddish to me; he was a taxi driver! A ten million to one chance! I must have stood out obviously! I’m the only one standing with my jackboots on.

I told him my mother was supposed to meet me. He said he was going to take me in his taxi to 28 Abbotsford Place, two stairs up. When he knocked the door the lady who owned it, opened the door. Obviously she couldn’t mistake me, she knew who I was. She said to come in and took me into my mother’s room. My mother was sitting in a chair taking her shoes off. She had gone to Queen Street Station and I had come in at Central Station.

INT: That’s amazing.

G.T: Unbelievable.

G.T: But I was clever enough to have a bit of paper with my mother’s address on it.

immigration

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