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You are here: Home / Archives for Wuga

Wuga

Ingrid Wuga awarded Medal of the Order of the British Empire

Her Majesty the Queen has graciously approved the following award for Ingrid Wuga

MEDAL OF THE ORDER OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE (BEM)

Read Ingrid Testimonials on gathering the voices and find out what life was like before the war, during and settling into Scotland.

Filed Under: News Tagged With: british, empire, ingrid, medla, order, Wuga

Henry Wuga – June 1940 The Fun And Normal Life Come To An Abrupt End

The refugee committee informed me that I need to go to the high court in Edinburgh. A lawyer from the committee accompanied me to the high court but he was not allowed into the hearing. At the High court in Edinburgh I was convicted of “Corresponding with the Enemy” a very serious offence during wartime. My letters to my parents were sent to my uncle Salo Würzburger in Brussels which in 1940 was a neutral country. Uncle Salo then forwarded the letters on to Germany. The answer came back by the same route and the letters were intercepted by the censor.

The Judge, Sir John Strachan made me A Dangerous Enemy Alien Category A. I was arrested, I was just 16y (a juvenile). I was shocked but not frightened.

Two Detectives escorted me to Waverly Station, put me in a locked compartment on the Glasgow train, all alone. Collected at Queen’s Street Glasgow by 2 policemen and taken home to Hurwichs. Allowed 1 phone call and packed the minimum of clothing in a holdall.  Next stop Police Headquarters. The Sargent said: “Cannie tak the Laddie. He’s under 17, not allowed in a cell”. A civilised country!  A stressful day but I was well treated by the policemen. They panicked, what to do with this Dangerous ‘Cat. A’ boy?

A Remand Home for Juvenile offenders, was the answer. Boys of 13/15y waiting to go to court the next day for stealing and other offences. I was greeted by these boys: “What did ye dae?” As I “didnae dae onythin” I lost their esteem. My cigarettes were deposited in the Governor’s office. He was kind and meant well, giving me permission to smoke in his office. I knew better. I would have been ridiculed. A most stressful day. Did I sleep well for the two nights I was there? I can’t remember!

I was transferred to Maryhill Barrack’s, a large military base in Glasgow now a prisoner of war camp. Rudolf Hess was held there after his “peace” flight.

Shared a Cement Air raid Shelter with 21 captured German Merchant Sailors. Here I was once again in a hostile environment. Jewish, German and Category A. There were anti-Semitic remarks, however some senior ranking officers protected me. A stressful time, as prisoners we were confined with nothing to relieve the feeling of imprisonment.

Two weeks later the journey continued by bus to Donaldson school in Edinburgh, a large former Deaf School at Corstorphine, now an internment camp. I was once again with the same German sailors, fortunately I did not have to share their dormitory.

The war was going badly after the Dunkirk evacuation. Prime Minister Winston Churchill

Banged the Cabinet Table “Collar the Lot” was the phrase he used. The internment of enemy aliens, German and Italian, even the “friendly Continental Jewish refugees” began. Churchill was driven to that by the relentless virulent anti foreigner’s campaign by the tabloid press, The Mail, Express & Sun. “Expel the foreigners, lock them up etc.”

An unnecessary decision, we came here to flee from the Nazis and to help defeat them.

At Donaldson’s the commandant asked “Is there anyone here who can cook?”  I put my hand up, “yes, I can cook!”. My apprenticeship in Baden Baden in 1938 made me confident.

Thinking back, the temerity of youth made me volunteer. “Within 72 hours 170 internees will arrive, you need to prepare meals” The army provided the rations and I found myself

in charge of the kitchen with a staff of 12 German sailors in this large institutional kitchen,

and we cooked. One sailor called me “ein dreckiger Jude” a dirty Jew. Another knocked him out. British Corporal was assigned to keep things normal. We worked hard for 10 days.

General Internment had been ordered and amongst the arrivals of the men was my cousin Gustav Würzburger and my future father in law Ascher Wolff.

It is now July and while at Donaldson’s we fortunately missed being sent to Canada on the SS Arandora Star, which was tragically torpedoed off Ireland with the loss of hundreds of lives of Internees.

Time to move on again by train to York Racecourse. Corporal produced a list of rations for the train: Oatmeal potatoes, beans etc. I pointed out that we will not have any cooking facilities,

“We need bread and corned beef.” I was not afraid to speak up again, I spoke the truth.

We were quartered below the stands of the race course. Very basic cold and damp.  Now separated from the German sailors, just mostly German Jewish Refugees.  Only a few days there. I remember lectures on hygiene, no doubt they had concerns about homosexuality.  A boring time, constant roll calls to check the number of prisoners.

The minute you became familiar with the new camp and fellow internees, it was time to move on.

Now August and on to camp No 5. Warth Mills near Bury Lancashire, on old cotton mill. It turned out to be the most horrendous experience of all the camps.  2000 men crammed into the filthy oily floors of this disused mill. On arrival we were strip searched, I remember joining the long queue to be searched. I lost most of my personal belongings, fountain pen, pocket knife, wrist watch, never to be seen again. A fairly rough going over by the soldiers.

It was intimidating and frightening we were just the German Enemy!

Given a hessian sack to fill with straw. That was your bed, now find a place on the floor to sleep. Overcrowding sparked a tense situation that led to sickness. Injuries from falling overhead transmissions, a dangerous time. Basic toilet facilities consisted of 60 buckets in a yard and 18 water taps for 2000 men. At night crossing the yard the guards would       shout:

“Halt or I Shoot”. I recall one man so upset that he pulled open his shirt and said “SHOOT”

Someone described it as “Hell on Earth” You can imagine the in adequacy of the food.

The eating area was called Starvation Hall. There were many Doctors amongst the Internees, they were afraid of an epidemic occurring in these dangerous conditions.

On a lighter note, unbelievably the only item that was plentiful was Carnation Milk in tins for your porridge, so sweet and sickly, that I have not touched it since.

It was a very hard 2 weeks at Warth Mills, tense and dangerous, Soldiers with guns and bayonets.  The officers and men were eventually court martialled for the unnecessarily brutal treatment of the Internees. It is a sad reflection on the Government’s panicky handling of the Internment of Aliens. They knew who we were and why we sought asylum in the UK. to escape the Nazi persecution of Jews.

Time to move again to Hyton Liverpool on our way to the Isle of Man. How do you create a camp quickly? Hyton was an unfinished housing scheme, simply enclose with barbed wire  and hey Presto you have a camp. We only stayed 2 days.  At Liverpool we embarked for the IoM where many camps were ready. Simply whole sections of Hotels and Boarding houses surrounded by barbed wire, in Douglas ,Ramsay, Peel and Port Erin (women).

A smooth 3hour crossing of the Irish Sea. Our destination was Peveril Camp Peel on the West Coast of the island.

Walked from the harbour to the railway station, a narrow gage small train took us to Peel, about 80 internees. Peveril Camp consisted of the last 8 hotels at the end of the promenade, overlooking PEEL BAY and Castle. This looked very promising,

Reasonable accommodation, double rooms. House No 6, 12 rooms on 3 storeys.

24 Internees age groups 25 to 60 plus. Mostly German Jewish refugees and some political German detainees. I was the only CHILD aged 16 detained by MI5 !!

Knowing we were here for the long term, you settled down and made friends. Food was reasonable, no shortages.

Business people, teachers’ doctors galore, University professors and also “ordinary” Jewish refugees, all missing their dear ones let in the UK. It did not take long to establish discussion groups, theatre and music debating groups. We all had time on our hands. Interrupted careers, no income, one letter a week, everybody had family torn apart.

For me it was a great learning experience like a look into adult life and a whole new education. No Newspapers allowed, we followed the course of the war by radio when permitted. The authorities began to understand we were not “Enemy Aliens” but a well educated

Refugees from the Nazis and are anxious to help the war effort towards victory. We organised the postal system, we hated the disruption of the constant ROLL Calls and found a better system which the camp commander accepted. We refused to go for walks or swimming accompanied by soldiers with guns and bayonets, they began to understand, we were not going to escape, Things settled down to mutual cooperation.

Professor Hans Gal, who had lived Edinburgh, published his daily diaries in German and English, from a camp in Douglas, a really special insight, worth reading.

To combat illness, we were divided into groups by our doctors, to test different foods or medicines. It WORKED.

Many men played Chess, but with their backs to the chess board, given 10 seconds to call out the next move. Quite a challenge !! Many musical instruments arrived from their homes in UK and Music and Theatre flourished . Cabarets, Shows also for the Officers. We were taken to Douglas to see the Charlie Chaplin Film : The Great Dictator, making fun of Hitler. Life went on. Several people were released for hardship or medical reasons. We all hoped to get home soon.

We were allowed a weekly letter. My letter was used to complain to the authorities. It was sent to the liberal Manchester Guardian and Eleanor Rathbone MP(known as MP for the refugees). We  argued that we should be released to help with the war effort and defeat the Nazis. This exposure got our comments mentioned at Prime Ministers Question Time.  In spite of being behind barbed wire it gave us a feeling of living in democratic country.

I was called to several Tribunals to be reassessed. Did I really correspond with the enemy?

I got a new roommate, a German officer a Metallurgist working at the British Aluminium Co.

in Fort William. He turned out to be an MI5 Agent. He spoke Perfect German and Oxford English. He gave lectures in metallurgy, to fool us of his identity.

He tried to get me drunk and searched for information, which I did not have or know.

An unpleasant episode. But his report must have convinced them that I was CLEAN.

Which eventually led to my release. In 2008 I received a document through Freedom of Information from MOD that they did think I was a spy.

Many more boring months went by. Met many interesting people and made good friends. A Yorkshire man who had no German connections wondered why he was interned. It turned out his grandfather was German and had never become British. Poor man found it difficult to take. However, he taught me about Tabaco. Gather certain leaves, cure them with Salpeter, put them in a sardine tin place under 1 leg of your bed and the pressure will make solid Tabaco. You learned a lot about making do.

I was transferred to Ramsay Camp for just 2 days to be released. The commandant told me: “I cannot keep you a day longer as you are under the age for internment” which was 18.

Such is the bureaucracy of wartime. The journey home was frightening. All ALONE after being in a friendly community for 10 long months. Had vouchers for Boat and Train, But which Boat? Where to find train to Glasgow in Liverpool station? Remember it is wartime, who do I ask?

A warm welcome from Mrs. Hurwich. I have come HOME.

What Now?  I found a job as apprentice Chef at the Corn Exchange restaurant.

Found the Refugee Club with lots of young people, “The House on the Hill in Sauchiehall Street “Where I met Ingrid. As they say “The Rest Is History”.

Henry Wuga – Personal Diary

My first 23 months in the United Kingdom May 1939 to April 1941

An incredible experience for a German Jewish Refugee Boy aged 15 to 17 years

May 1939

Arrived by Kindertransport train at Liverpool Street Station London

Next day by Royal Scott train from Euston to Glasgow

Welcomed by Mrs. E. Hurwich, my Guarantor

June 1939

At Queen’s Park School, Summer Holiday in Kirkcudbright with Sassoon Family

September outbreak of War

Evacuated with school to Perthshire

March 1940

Back in Glasgow at Mrs Hurwich

June 1940

At High Court in Edinburgh found guilty of “Corresponding with the Enemy” Arrested as Dangerous Enemy Alien Category A

Interned in 7 different Internment Camps finally on the Isle of Man

April 1941

Released as “Friendly Enemy Alien due to Religious Persecution Category C” Nothing untoward found by MI 5.

Returned to Glasgow to my Guarantor Mrs. E. Hurwich

Now 17 years old

From the time of leaving Nürnberg by Kindertransport train on the 2nd May 1939 to arriving

in Glasgow on the 5th May, 3 traumatic days have elapsed.

With tearful emotion you say Goodbye to your parents, will we ever see each other again?

The Train journey was horrendous. Young children 6 to 9, who had never been separated from their Mutti and Papi before, were crying, no howling is a better description.

We all had a label round our neck, name and age. Allowed one small item of luggage.

Many hours later we crossed into Holland. The Nazi guards had left and the atmosphere and the mood changed. Even the youngest child felt the difference, we were in free country.

At the first station, Dutch Ladies calmed the tension with Hot Chocolate, White Bread Sandwiches and Red Apples. An oppressive weight lifted from our shoulders. Another few hours to reach Hook and the overnight Chanel crossing to Harwich. How many of us had ever been on a Boat before? We have finally arrived in England, Hurrah!

Train to Liverpool Street Station, 170 exhausted children after a 36hour journey, awaiting

being collected by their Guarantors, Friends or people willing to take a Refugee Child.

Kind people took children, but it was a bit of a “Cattle Market” siblings were separated not to see each other till WHEN? However, we are now in a country willing to admit us and be saved from the Nazi Terror.

A night in a hostel with 2 others, destination GLASGOW. In the morning from Euston Station London to Glasgow Central, 6 hours on the famous Royal Scott an amazing journey.  I had used trains a lot in Germany- all wooden seats. Comfortable soft upholstered seats on this luxurious train. Taken to the Dining Car, Lunch with Silver Service and waiters wearing white gloves, we were spellbound.

Grete Gummers, my mother’s cousin, awaited me at Platform 1 Glasgow Central and took me to my Guarantor Mrs. Etta Hurwich at 169 Queen’s Drive, a Front Door Flat in a typical Glasgow tenement. A very kind welcome by this kind and amazing Lady, herself an immigrant from Latvia in the 1890’s. Her family had grown up, son Simon still lived at home.

A comfortable home, my downstairs room, bright, comfy but OH the tightly tucked in blankets, no downies!!

How do you settle in? Sparse English to communicate, different food and meal times tea with milk, tinned pineapple, chopped fried fish. What impressions did Glasgow make?  A large grey city, parks, tramcars well stocked shops and friendly people. I was immediately enrolled at Queen’s Park School to learn English. As the only foreign boy I was made welcome. Given the nickname “57” as in “Heinz Baked Beans”

Mrs. Hurwich and son Simon managed an Upholstery Factory, A maid looked after the household. I was no longer to wear shorts and I was kitted out with suits. You go along with the local customs. I felt comfortable as part of a friendly family and meeting daughter Bessie, husband Frank and granddaughter Barbara and friends.

Letters to Mum and Dad in Nürnberg flowed regularly. Having left home at 14 to work as an apprentice chef in a hotel in Baden Baden, helped me not to feel homesick.

July 1939 Summer holidays, invited by the Sassoon family, David and Vera in Kirkcudbright. I spent many weeks with sons Joey and Jackie at their basic beach house on the Solway Firth. No electricity, water from a well at LOW tide only, cooking on a Primus stove. An idyllic seaside existence. My first time on a beach, swimming, sailing and learning about tides (40 foot in the Solway Firth) recedes for over a mile and returns like an express train. Dangerous quick sands and Jellyfish stings. How lucky to have such a blissful time in Southern Scotland, beaches, games, cricket, rounders, mountains countryside Belted Galloway Cattle, Rabbits and other wildlife. An unforgettable time, completely new experiences with a family who remain lifelong friends.

The clouds darkened on my return to Glasgow. War was declared in September 1939.A sombre time, preparations for “blackout curtains, air raid sirens, police checks on Aliens, an insecure time.  How can I be in touch with my parents? No mail, no telephone, all connection with Germany ceased immediately. My uncle Sallo Würzburger lived in Brussels, Belgium, still neutral. Letters to my parents went via Brussels to Nürnberg and came back by the same route. At least we were in touch.

 

Back at school, in October the government decided to evacuate all children from towns to the country in case of air attacks. I went by train to Perthshire, billeted at a friendly family farm at Guildtown and attended the village school by bike.  The large farm was another new experience. Horses, Cattle, Barley, Potatoes (Tattie Howking) Hay making. I enjoyed helping everywhere. The only signs of War were the pilots training at a local airport.

Plentiful good farm food, pheasant, chicken, eggs, milk and cream. No shortages. I became fascinated with horses, formed a particular friendship with “Clyde” groomed and fed him but was not allowed to leave his stable if he decided not to let me out.

Some weeks later transferred to Perth Academy. They did not like my English and I went to Balhousie Boy’s School, a Junior Secondary. How fortunate was that, as the Headmaster Mr Borthwick took me under his wing and nurtured me. I had an inspiring 6 months there, was allowed to use both languages for exams. The highlight was studying Shakespeare’s Macbeth, this bloodthirsty history of a Scottish King. I was fascinated, a completely new experience. I can still recite whole passages, it had such an impact on me. ‘Double double toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble” the witches “Here’s the smell of blood still. All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand”. Tragic Lady Macbeth.

“Out out brief candle, life’s but a walking shadow”. It just enthralled me.

Decades later with daughters and grandchildren on the way to skiing in Aviemore, when passing Birnam, they had to quote Macbeth: “When Birnam wood moves on to Dunsinane”

What a demanding father!!

November 1939, transferred to Rossie House, Forgandenny a sort of boarding school.

30 Glaswegian boys and girls. A beautiful house in a large estate. A village post office for sweets and treats and of course there were GIRLS! exciting. A happy stay. We were well looked after.

I befriended the estate Game Keeper Mr. Mc Candlish. We had a Pack of Foxhounds and he taught me Fly Fishing for Salmon on the river Earn.  For a boy of 16 these were thrilling new experiences. To school in Perth by Bus, Train or Bike. Stopped at an Army checkpoint to show our Identity Cards, on the lookout for spies.  My card showed “Nationality German”

The young soldier panicked Alarm! Here is a German. His card proves it- just what they had been briefed to look out for. He called the Corporal who called the Sargent who sent for an Officer. “Let the Laddie go to school” he decided. End of incident.

In spite of the War not going well, we were sheltered and safe. On Sundays when the kids were at church, I was allowed to bake cakes for afternoon tea in the kitchen. Cooking and baking must be in my genes. I made several good friends at Rossie House, one was another Jewish boy Max Barlaski. Never any hint of Antisemitism or anti German feeling.

1940 a New Year dawns.

No news from my parents, just hope they are well.

February, my 16th birthday, Perthshire becomes a Protected Area, even Friendly Enemy Aliens have to leave. Back home to Glasgow to the Hurwich Household. No possibility to return to school. Bought a bicycle for 15 shillings and explored the Clyde coastline. I love the outdoors. Misread the map and had an extra 30 miles cycling to reach home. The Hurwich family are members of Queen’s Park Synagogue where I join them for the Jewish Festivals. At weekends, Simon and a friend kindly “schlepped” me to walk round 18 holes to Barassie Golf Links followed by High Tea at Ferari’s No 10, a superb restaurant.  How kind to be taken.

Glasgow middle class life style I am learning!!

Henry Wuga – Video Interview

Ingrid Wuga – Reflection On Life

INT: You mentioned that when you came over… when you left your home to come over at the beginning and you waved goodbye to your parents- Do you sort of reflect on that? How different things could have been had they not come over? Do you feel…

IW: Oh yes

INT: Very fortunate?

IW: I was very worried, I was very worried that my parents might not make it in time because my father was taken into custody again into…well, it was a concentration camp but it was only a police station where he was for a few, I think, over a week and he was accused of espionage. And he was freed and right away, they had permission by that time to come to Britain, to Coventry and they just got out one week before war broke out.

INT: So things worked out very well

IW: It was very, very worrying. Very worrying

INT: It was worrying and close, but at least they got here.

IW: They got here

INT: At the right time

IW: Yes

INT: So

IW: So I feel I’m very, very lucky because many of the Kindertransport people never saw their parents again. So I feel very blessed.

INT: Yes. You’ve lived in Scotland all these years

IW: Yes

INT: So if you’re thinking back over the years that you’ve been here have you got some really strong good memories that you could share with us? And then some maybe not-so-good memories?

IW: We, when we did get married we, we went on…Even before we went youth hostelling, we walked from one youth hostel to another but I found it very difficult to carry a rucksack so then we were able to buy bicycles and we cycled from one youth hostel to another and had very nice holidays in youth hostels. Met quite a few interesting people…so life just evolved and eventually we started…

Yeah Henry went… I was pregnant with Hilary and Henry wanted to…

He had a cousin in Lyon and he always wanted to go to Lyon to work in the catering trade in Lyon because it’s well known for good cuisine. And we met Henry’s cousin in Paris one year and Henry said ‘Kurt you were always going to get me a job in Lyon?’

He said ‘Well come with me tomorrow’

I said ‘Just like that?!’

And Henry said ‘Given the chance I’ve got to go’

So he went to Lyon, got himself a job and – ‘You can start next week’

So he was there for six months in Lyon. He got a leave of absence from The Grand Hotel where he was chef, worked in Lyon for six months and…

INT: Did you go over while he was there?

IW: No I couldn’t. I had to do my dressmaking to earn some money to pay the rent/share the rent with my parents and he was back in time just for Hilary to be born. But I worked. I kept the things going here. We didn’t know whether he would earn any money in Lyon but he did earn a little. Not very much, but enough. He said that it was an experience that he would never like to have missed. It was really good, he worked in two…

INT: It was a good opportunity for him

IW: Yes and also in a patisserie. He said ‘You can learn lots of things’. He started at six o clock in the morning and he tells a story where he wanted to have a cup of coffee at six o clock in the morning to start work and he said ‘Not at all – you drink “Marc” (Cognac) at this time of the morning’

INT2: And did he think the skills that he got in Lyon, that he would be able to come back to Scotland and use them?

IW: Yes, yes. Some of it, some of it

INT2: Some of it.

IW: Well eventually we, eventually Henry wanted to earn some extra money and a friend of ours said ‘Why don’t you do the odd function?’

He said ‘function? What are you talking about?’

‘Well so-and-so wants a party’

I think it was New Year and Henry must have been quite good at it because somebody said ‘Who did your function?’

‘Oh that guy up the road’

‘Oh, can you do a function for me?’

‘Can you do a function for me?’

And eventually we got so busy that we started our own catering business. We catered in…By that time we had a flat of our own but

INT: And what was your involvement in the business?

IW: I did a lot of baking. I had my mother’s recipes and I did a lot of baking. Henry didn’t do the baking; that was my job.

INT: Oh right

IW: But he decorated the cakes.

INT: Ok, but you did the baking?

IW: I did the baking

INT: Ok so you would have been very busy with that?

IW: Very busy, yes, very busy.

INT: So have there been any lows? Anything?

IW: Any?

INT: Lows. Any bad times?

IW: No you just get on with it. If there was a low you … And our business was right away kosher. We said ‘No we don’t want anything…’

INT: You made that decision yourself?

IW: Yes we did

INT: Is this because of…?

IW: And we catered for non-Jewish functions

INT: Yes

IW: And we told them that we could not give them milk in their tea after a meat function and they said that’s alright. But nowadays you have vegetarian milk.

INT: Yeah

IW: That is permissible.

INT: You were telling me that when Henry set up, when you both set up the catering business, you wanted it to be kosher

IW: Yes

INT: Is this because of your links to Judaism?

IW: I would say

INT: What I’m trying to ask is how strong have your links been with Judaism? How important in your life has it been?

IW: Well when I came to this country, when I was in England first, people said ‘How did you manage your food?’ and I said ‘You eat what you’re given or you go hungry’

I didn’t need to eat pork or bacon but the meat was definitely not kosher. But you just get on with it.

INT: So prior to coming over then (when you lived back home, before you came over here) had you lived..?

IW: Not one hundred percent. My grandparents yes and I have very, very happy memories of spending holidays, summer holidays with my grandparents. They both lived in a small town in the north of Germany and I’m quite sure that was to the letter of the law.

INT: Right ok. But you still kept traditions, the traditions going?

IW: Traditions yes, traditions yes. But here, once I got here you just, as I say you eat what you’re given or you do without.

INT: And then later on after the war you were married and did you…I know you were talking about being part of the refugee club initially, but then throughout the years

IW: Sorry?

INT: The refugee club.

IW: Yes

INT: Initially you were there but later, in later years have you had an involvement in the Jewish community? Apart from obviously the catering business (you are well known in Glasgow for that).

IW: Yes, oh yes, eventually people… In fact when I went to the, or we went to the refugee club somebody said once ‘Oh you all keep yourselves very separate’ and I said ‘Look you must remember we are visitors in your town or country. I cannot come to your door and say may I come in. It’s for you to invite us’ and somehow we…if you think about it if you go to another town, unless you meet people you are a stranger and it can be very lonely. And I would of, we would have liked to mix with the Jewish community in Glasgow right away but it wasn’t that easy. They felt we wanted to keep ourselves separate but we didn’t. We wanted to be mixed.

INT: So it was kind of a, it’s a bit of a…it sounds like it is maybe a bit of a breakdown in communication in a way?

IW: It was. It was. When I did dressmaking with a friend one lady said ‘You know there is a Jewish Music Society here in Glasgow? And I hear you always play nice classical music on your radio’

She had something made by this friend and myself. And Henry and I joined this music society and that opened up the Glasgow Jewish community. We met other people and it was a very welcoming affair.

INT: So then you began to feel more part of the Glasgow community?

IW: Definitely, definitely. The music society started it; yes the Glasgow Jewish Music Society.

INT: So have you made long friendships then with people here? Jewish people here?

IW: Oh yes, yes, yes

INT: Apart from people that you met through the refugee club then?

IW: Yes, yes

INT: You sort of, so you became a part of the wider Jewish community?

IW: Well through catering

INT: Yes

IW: And then eventually…In any case, yes

INT2: What have you given… you’ve, I know you have given back to Scotland and the community (i.e. BLESMA – the skiing for handicapped soldiers)

IW: Oh yes

INT2: How did you get involved with that?

IW: Oh…I don’t remember but we’ve been going with… We must have met someone?

INT: So when did you start skiing?

IW: Henry started skiing, oh, many, many years ago in Aviemore. We might have met somebody there. Henry, I know Henry skied with blind people. You have to go by the clock – 1 o clock you turned a little to the right, 3 o clock you would turn completely to the right and so on; that’s how you ski with blind people.

I think that’s why/how we might have got involved with BLESMA which is British Limbless Ex Servicemen. It’s a big organization where soldiers or ex-soldiers have lost a limb and they need instructions. They… BLESMA gives them recuperative holidays I think once or twice (I’m not quite sure how often) and we’ve gone with them for many, many years to Austria where we skied. Henry instructed them or skied with them and I, I’m…Henry is an instructor I’m only a helper but I had quite a few soldiers who I helped to skibob down the hill.

INT: Fantastic

IW: And I got the name of ‘Aunty Ingrid’ there because I helped one guy who halfway/quarter way down the hill he said ‘I can’t go any further’ and I said ‘Come on! We’ve got to get down the hill’ I said ‘You have got a gammy leg and will find it difficult to climb back up the hill. I’m old and I would find it extremely difficult to climb up the hill. So let’s go down the hill’

‘No’ was the answer

So I said ‘Well, let’s go to the other side’

And eventually I got him down the hill and he said ‘That was wonderful! It was wonderful! Can I call you Auntie Ingrid?’

And I said ‘Yes’!

So ever since then BLESMA calls me ‘Auntie Ingrid’

INT: That’s lovely. Tell me, do you still bake?

IW: Yes. Not a lot but I do

INT: And what about your own family? Are they?

IW: Well we have two daughters

INT: Are they in Scotland or are have they moved away?

IW: No. One in Scotland, in Edinburgh. Jillian (the younger daughter), her husband and two sons live in Edinburgh and Hilary (who married Paul) lives in London and they have also two sons. So after two daughters we’ve got four grandsons.

INT: Very nice, lovely

IW: And very happy with our sons-in-law. We get on extremely well with them so there’s no problem.

INT: Very good. Well thank you very much. It’s been

IW: Alright?

INT: Very insightful and yes we’re very grateful. Thank you

Ingrid Wuga – Integration

INT: So you were working during the war?

IW: I was

INT: You were more than a seamstress really; you were cutting patterns

IW: Yes

INT: You were learning to

IW: No that was, that was for myself. No I was only a seamstress in the shop learning to do alterations to make things smaller if people needed.

INT: Were you quite happy doing that then? Did you enjoy it?

IW: Yes, well you…

INT2: How did you get that job?

IW: I went, I literally went into the shop and said ‘I’m looking for a job. Do you need any help?’ and she said ‘I can only pay you twelve and six’ I remember that so well and she said ‘You know when I was young I had to pay to be employed in a shop like this’

So I said ‘Well I’m sorry I can’t pay’ And I lived in the girls hostel in Renfrew Street.

INT: So you feel that the Jewish Refugee club, the people there helped give you the confidence?

IW: It did give me confidence which I had lost quite a bit. I felt very… at sea.

INT: Yeah. So when the war finished, when the war was over you were about twenty-one?

IW: No, well yeah I must have been about twenty-one yes. And by that time I was married, yes.

INT: So did you get married just before the war finished?

IW: Just before yes, yes 1944

INT: Ok and then what happened then? What did you do thereafter? Did you work?

IW: I just, I got out of the shop. Well I did some more work where I was called up ‘What would I like to do?’

INT: Was this in order to help you to become naturalized or was this?

IW: No, no. Just because it was war work.

INT: Just because it was war work.

IW: You could either go into a munitions factory but since I was able to sew they said ‘You can sew in a factory where they make uniforms or parachutes, so I said ‘Well I think uniforms might be better’ and I worked in a factory, Moore Taggart in Albion Street where they made uniforms. But where I worked, they made policemen uniforms. A very boring job but it was a job and you just get on with it.

INT2: How were the girls?

IW: Alright

INT2: With you?

IW: Yes, yes they were not too bad

INT2: And could you understand them?

IW: Yes just! Yes they were, well… you could talk to them but not a particularly intelligent conversation

INT: Did you, (I mean even then and now at any time) did you have any experiences of anti-Semitism?

IW: No

INT: Personal?

IW: No I can’t say that. No, no. Maybe anti-German during the war but not really badly. When they heard why I was here they became, people became very friendly.

INT: So you felt that Scotland was a good place to be?

IW: Yes definitely. Yes, yes I’m very happy in Scotland.

INT: So you were a seamstress?

IW: Yes

INT: Did you think about studying to do something else?

IW: I thought of further education but I just couldn’t afford it so I eventually gave it up. But in the Club, in the Refugee Club there were, as I said, people who were older and had studies. Some were more educated and we had very interesting meetings on a Saturday night where people would hold lectures about medicine (which I found always extremely interesting), history (yes quite interesting if you heard people talk about their own country) – but I found that I’ve always been extremely interested in medicine and anything that came up in a meeting like that I would be all ears.

INT: You said earlier on you would have liked to have trained to do nursing?

IW: Yes, yes

INT: If you’d had the opportunity

IW: But somehow it just didn’t work anymore because I don’t think I could have earned enough and it just didn’t work out anymore.

INT: So you were married after the war and you were

IW: No during the war – 1944

INT: Uh huh yes and when the war ended, after that, when you were married, did you start a family early on or were you working?

IW: No, no, we knew…

INT: No?

IW: We knew we would not start a family. In fact my parents finally got out of the housework and that was just before we got married and I said to Henry ‘My parents are going to rely on both of us or me alone to help pay for the flat’ – the rented flat, a furnished flat. ‘They can’t afford it on their own’

So I was going to move in with my parents and Henry agreed that when we got married we would live with my parents, share. We would have our own bedroom but shared the sitting room and the kitchen and there was no problem at all. My parents welcomed Henry very much, so much so that I used to say ‘Well I’m the step-child and Henry is the son’ because whatever was being decided -‘We’ll ask Henry’.

INT: So it worked out very well for you then?

IW: It worked out extremely well; Henry was accepted right away.

INT: So how long, how many years or how long did that situation last for?

IW: We lived in the furnished flat then my parents bought a flat upstairs and we lived there….but then….yes, eventually we had a little girl and we said, ‘We’d like a flat of our own’ and we bought a flat not very far away.

INT: Quite nearby

IW: Quite nearby because we got on extremely well with my parents

INT2: Did you speak German with them?

IW: Never

INT2: In the house?

IW: Never, never. The only time Henry and I spoke German in front of Hilary was when it was something we didn’t want her to understand / want her to know. I can’t remember what it was but she said one morning ‘I know what you’re saying in that funny language’ and there were no more secrets. We said ‘In that case we don’t want to speak German anymore’.

INT2: And what about with your parents?

IW: No. I spoke English. I had a thing – I didn’t want to speak German.

INT2: And at the Refugee Club?

IW: It was mostly English

INT2: So it was a decision?

IW: We all felt, we all felt that we’re in this country and we want to integrate as much as possible.

INT: With friendships – did you have mostly Jewish friends or half and half with non-Jewish or?

IW: We had some, through Henry’s work (Henry is a chef and he worked in hotels and restaurants) and one family who lived in (or live) in Falkirk became…the daughter was gaining experience in the hotel and she must have mentioned to her parents about us and we were invited to Falkirk to the family, the Morrison’s, and they were not Jewish and they were extremely kind. They could not have been more welcoming than they were.

INT: So did you maintain a friendship then?

IW: Yes we’re still friendly with the daughter who lives in Falkirk still.

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Links to Other Testimonies by Ingrid Wuga

Life Before The War
Life During The War
Immigration
Settling In
Integration
Reflection On Life

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